The BBC says discussions are underway to extend the Renters Reform Bill to specifically outlaw any rental listing banning families and benefit recipients from applying.
And the talks include having the same approach in Scotland and Wales in addition to England. At the moment the Renters Reform Bill would, if it became law, apply only to England.
The BBC quotes Westminster government Housing Secretary Michael Gove as saying a joint approach by all three nations would "send a clear message to providers".
A BBC report says: “Mr Gove has written to Scottish Housing Minister Paul McLennan to offer a joint approach. He said talks had also taken place with the Welsh government.”
And it quotes Gove directly, saying: “We know this is a priority we share with the Scottish government, and would send a clear message to providers across the whole of Great Britain.”
A Scottish Government spokesperson is quoted: "We are aware of the UK government's plans to introduce a ban on excluding those in receipt of benefits and those who have children, and welcome this proposal.
"We will work with the UK government as it develops its plans to consider how best to protect these groups in Scotland."
However, the Scottish Government spokesperson adds that any joint approach “must include a close examination of the UK government's decision to freeze Local Housing Allowance rates at 2020 levels for the third year running", saying affordability was "the far more significant barrier to accessing a privately rented home".
A BBC investigation earlier this week found thousands of adverts for rental homes posted by private landlords and letting agents which said children or pets were not welcome.
Almost a quarter of just under 8,000 ads examined on the OpenRent website said families were not allowed to rent the homes, while 300 on Zoopla explicitly said children were not wanted.
You can see the full BBC report here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66116194
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He needs to get local authorities to change their contracts to make sure landlords are paid direct. Also make sure the applicants for housing benefits are wholey responsible for any benefit they may obtain fraudulently, as long as the Landlord follows process!
I've used the Credit Union before,so benefits claimants agree to go through Credit Union, which also helps them with budgeting etc. The benefits are paid directly into Credit Union who then pays the Landlord. It worked very well a few years ago and put the tenant in touch with a really helpful organisation
Just insist they meet the referencing requirements of the insurerers for the rent guarantee insurance you will be taking out.
9 out of 10 times they won't meet the requirements. The LHA rent payment for a 2 bedroom flat in the borough of Lewisham is £1,400 pcm at its peak for tenant's on UC. Professional working tenant's are paying £300 pcm more. I'd love to see how they will summons a LL for discrimination in this scenario.
I hear you William, and the same also applies to Homeserve's "LL's plumbing policy."
Just give them a particularly thorough application form. Most of them won’t respond.
I would appreciate, if the 'Renter's reform bill,' was rebranded as the 'Landlord's and Tenant's reform bill.'
That would be more appropriate.
This bill is just another exclusion for LL's. UC doesn't have a dedicated number, email address or support network for LL's, but it has all of that plus more for the tenants.
The same also applies to all local councils within the UK, pertaining to damp. If you want to complain about a tenant who is causing mould, damp and condensation, you have no one to contact, but if it's the tenant complaining, then the email address will be disrepair@yourlocalcouncil.gov.uk, dedicated email address/phone numbers for tenant's only!
For example, a tenant on UC, has a work coach. I had a tenant that was 2 months in rent arrears, and the tenant blocked my application that was initially successful and approved for 'ADRP,' aka Apply for Direct Rent Payment for LL's.
When S21 notice was served on May 23rd, 2023, the rent due on May the 28th wasn't paid.
The tenant told UC that I'm lying, and no rent is owed, because tenant has vacated. This message, is relayed across the message board in UC and flagged up to protect the tenant for all staff members to see. (No cross reference with LL to verify, and I was locked out due to data protection, because the address I gave of tenant didn't match their records).
Meanwhile, the tenant was still residing at my property address that didn't match UC's records until June 29th, rent free, leaving the property in a poor state, with large items to dispose of.
The case manager that was meant to call me didn't call to date. The email address I was provided with by UC, didn't respond to any of my emails that clearly showed the tenant was still residing at the property with video evidence of the school runs to and throw, bin collections, take away deliveries and parcel deliveries etc.
I had to do my own research and contact someone high in a senior position at DWP, by the name of Mr. Kam Patel, who is responsible for the Essex and South East London region.
When I sent an email on June 23rd with all the evidence , he was out of office until June 26th. On June 26th, I received my first ever form of communication from DWP/UC.
Mr. Kam Patel marked my case as urgent and forwarded my case to UC, advising that someone from UC will contact me.
By June 28th, 2023 the tenant was packing and on June 29th, 2023 the tenant officially vacated and left keys before the S21 notice expiry date of 28th July 2023.
UC have not contacted me to date, to discuss loss of rent, and they never will, but they want LL's to abide by their rules without giving us any assurances whatsoever .
I'd like to apply for special exemptions from UC tenant's under these circumstances.
The 'Renter's reform bill,' should include compulsory tenant's insurance as standard, along with pet's insurance. Tenant's should undergo a 'fit and proper persons test like landlords, and they should have their own Tenant's Licensing, just as we do!
Franklin, I wish you luck! Having dealt with the DWP on behalf of a tenant (I am that sort of landlord) I know that it can be a minefield for tenants too. But you are correct, the whole system is totally biased.
Plain affordability checks would exclude benefit claimants from any of our (very ordinary but well kept) family houses anyway as the LHA would no where near cover the rent these days.
You have this down to a T. You have addressed all my issues. Have been down exactly this same route. Benefit tenants have been a challenge I would prefer not to repeat.
Housing is a right so Tenants don't need to do any of the things what LLs want. Being a LL and running a business however, is not a right, nor is it to be subsidized if you fail in your ability to be profitable. It's a renters reform bill because LLs have bullied and attacked Tenants and made their lives a misery with all sorts of disgusting behaviors all in the name of supposedly providing a service to the country... As if that were your main aim... LLs buy to let businesses should only allowed to exist as a Social Enterprise at best. In reality, LLs should be registered as charities where LLs have to do volunteer work and they raise money from sponsored plumbing and electrical jobs that should have been done years ago.
Dream on Jason. Housing isn’t a right. You are going to get your renters reform bill and people will be in tents and it will be because of whinging from the likes of you. What value will you be adding in all of this? What value do you provide in this life?
I had UC tenants. Dreadful people. Rent was paid as and when. Applied for direct payment in Sept. The only correspondence I got was an email confirming my
Email to progress the original application. Had to take a photo of the end page confirming a ref nr. Heard NOTHING until Jan. Googled what to do. On Propertytribes and expert said contact seniors managers with real phone numbers and email addresses! I did and quite quickly it was approved. One tenant left in Feb so the remaining **** had to do a new application. There’s a delay in their receiving new payment too. So I lost a month…
No notifications from Universal Credit or DWP that the payment arrangement has been terminated.
You are kept in the dark about everything. It’s all about data protection and the tenant’s privacy.
I had to rent to UC in 2019. I would say never do it!
Jason, why is housing a right? Lions, Elephants, seagulls etc are not given housing as a right. You are an animal. Why do you things others must house you if you can’t yourself?
Landlords are bullied by the government. Some of that is passed to you. Especially the rent increases.
You can have your Cuckooland fantasies.
It appears they are coming to fruition. Good luck trying to find someone else who will let you live in their property going forward.
I guess the lesson with this sorry tale is don’t take on tenants on UC 🤔
I'm sorry Jason but if buy to let was only allowed to exist as a social enterprise there wouldn't be any landlords left. We are not a charity and most landlords only earn a modest profit to supplement their income/pension.
Flicker, if that is your belief then so be it. In utopia you will not mind paying me for my 11 properties the full market rate and abolishing CGT.
That way I can channel my inner good guy into helping the council with managing the properties because it is beyond comprehension that they will leave their Pelotons to do anything.....
Complete Jockey get a grip of the real world!! 99% of all landlords are decent people, get us on board and we will support reforms to get rid of the idiots. Lefty idiots like yourself though do not do real world.
This ''housing is a right'' talk is usually coming from lazy dependents that want everyone else to do the graft on their behalf and they'll make themselves feel better by talking on behalf of others about ''rights''. It could also be people that have shown zero discipline in their life and blame others for wasting their money away.
Anyone can do well in this country. Start young, be responsible, take care of your money. Even if you're on minimum wage you'll build something. Understand that asking others to pay for you is not a ''right'' it's shameless. That's the ethnics we need to teach, that's the leaders we need, not retarded politicians making reckless decisions and racking up a 2 trillion debt because they spend more than they take in. Idiotic.
Franklin I,
Pleased I haven't had to experience your problems.
As DWP is part of Government, you may wish to complain to the Government Ombudsman about their behaviour (Maladministration). Though you may well have to go through their internal complaints process first before you can do.
Same way as you can complain to the Local Government and Social Care Ombudsman about local authorities.
You can complain and request compensation.
If nothing else, it causes grief (whether internal complaints or full Ombudsman process) to the body concerned. In internal stages they have to be careful in case it does go public (i.e. to the Ombudsman).
I know the Local Government Ombudsman publishes cases where local authorities have screwed-up; which is highly embarrassing for them. Partly as the other of the some 400 councils in England read the formal reports, even if the public don't.
"specifically outlaw any rental listing banning families and benefit recipients from applying". Applying is one thing, getting what you apply for is quite another. So, apply away.
The next thing will be to make it illegal for LLs to ask for employment or benefit details. Instead the bank will only need to confirm a regular income exists, without stating the amounts. And make it law that LLs have to fill quotas for families and benefit claimants due to the dishonest biased practices of LLs who reject applications. Plus, all applications should go through a centralized portal that's monitored by the government so that LLs cannot deny people their right to somewhere to live.
Yes Jason. But I would many go through that process as a landlord.
Yes they can apply and waste their time but they will never pass affordability checks so no tenancy, simples
Flicker, monitor the portal? The Government or politicians of all sides are incapable of monitoring anything.
Poor Jason doesn’t understand why all the tenant discussion pages are bitterly moaning there’s nowhere to rent.
Yesterday PRS LLs were Vital to this country’s housing according to Gove.
Today he’s been and got his knife out again to stab us in the back.
Is this man so thick that he can’t work out that he is, on a daily basis forcing PRS LLs out of the business.
I say it nearly everyday, you Mr Gove are trying to end many many PRS LLs businesses and put thousands of families out of homes that you are forcing them to sell.
As I've said on several occasions to my local MP (a current Tory minister) whenever I'm told how important/vital private Landlords are to the country I brace myself for the inevitable kick in the gut that always follows.
Gove has just reinforced this!
Exactly so! Yesterday Give the snake gave us a positive...so wait for the negative, the turnaround, if he told me it was a sunny day, I'd have to check it myself! Couldn't believe a word he says, he seems to have proved that over the years.
When you have Ben from the NRLA having naïve cosy chats with Gove and the likes of Nationwide saying there is no exodus of private landlords, this madness will continue. The likes of Shelter and Generation Rent will continue baying for the blood of landlords and idiotic suggestions such as "sharing the profits" are obviously going to end up with a home in the PRS being rarer than Hens Teeth.
Asking for a share of the profits is showing how extremely bad things have become. This would be unheard of just a few years ago. Just goes to show how badly the political winds are now against landlords.
It’s open season.
John, these type of tenants do get a share of the profits. Its called CGT.
Give us one of the most out of touch ignorant self serving MPs in the country. He is a sensationalist MP always thinking he can do something that changes the world, but doesn’t affect him other than make him appear decisive and powerful. Everything he does is abusive one sided full of errors and nonsense. The councils this country and the people will feel the crap as private landlords get out of the sector and there are no rental properties to rent. It will not affect him he doesn’t care but it will make for good press cause he is a powerful MP. Nothing going on in this bill is for the tenant it’s for the larger businesses, the ones he and his cronies likely have investments in to take over and stop normal people read surfs in his eyes to get back
I’m the gutter and stop trying to make a bit of extra money as it’s all for them.
So...get rid of the private LLs and watch the Gov mates and cronies start up huge rental businesses, because they see there is a huge demand for homes! There's more to this than meets the eye!
The number of social housing exposés I've seen on TV, indeed that poor kid who died through mold in that dreadful flat)house run by social housing had me in tears, focus on THEM! They don't have to worry about the same things as private LLs and need to get their properties in order asap.
Gove is missing the point - LLs will choose the best tenant for their property & tenants with children or on benefits are rarely the best choice. The reason they are being ‘discriminated’ against is the lack of availability. Fix that& you wouldn’t need to legislate against them!
It's all virtue signalling, trying to garner tenant votes (which it won't). All it will do is drive out Landlords, creating even bigger shortages and higher rents.
And hes also missing the point that in most places in the South East, LHA rates are about 50% of market rents. They can apply all they want, but other stigmas aside, governments own policies mean they are very unlikely to ever succeed even with an incentive fee. Complete politicking, noone will be helped by this, party election campaigns have already started for next year.
It's just going to get worse lol. You'll all be social enterprises or charities this time next year 😂
I'm amazed you think that's funny, so there'll be less housing stock available?? Is that what you want? So less housing = higher rents is ok? Explain that to your friends when a rent rise drops through the door 🙄
We won't be charities. We'll be on the beach in a tropical island spending the money from the sale of the properties.
Spending what remains of your money after HMRC has had its share!
I suppose how much HMRC receives, depends on whether property prices are falling. Perhaps we just have to be satisfied with enough capital to live on (and enough to go around the world staying in first class hotels), now that it is no longer prudent from a business perspective to let property.
So if we’re charities that means we don’t get taxed. Like the rest of your arguments, you didn’t think it through did you? Lol
Never fear Steve, you will not be taxed as you will not make a profit, oh I forgot section 24 can lead to taxation on a loss.
Doubt it Flicker my old fruit. All tenants notified of rent increases and a further 3% year on year. Not one has thrown a ticket at me.
So I never put any rents up during a tenancy and a long way behind market rent. However due to this constant kicking, re evaluation has taken place.
With all the regs and legislations, we're already a charity when it comes to majority, not all, but most tenants on UC.
No Jason, as I've said before on this forum, my one house will be nicely maintained - and empty - until my son is old enough to live there. My tenant and her dog - who has had every single repair tended to quickly, even the ones she caused a need for - will be homeless.
I will not have the work shy scroungers of this country take my house from me, when my taxes are already high enough to pay for their laziness.
I have a full-time job, maybe they should educate themselves on the benefits of one as well - clue, one of those benefits is called a salary and it's mighty handy for something called a mortgage, which can funnily enough be used to purchase a home. Sounds like a lot of effort, doesn't it? Better to have no respect and get back in the benefits queue, obviously.
And you will be living on the street still whinging!! Still wanting someone else the state to pay for you to continue breathing
Your solutions to homelessness do not make sense. Business owners and entrepreneurs will always find a way to prevail.
It's my house you jumped up Scottish twerp and I'll rent it to who I want.
He’s Scottish, but not representative of Scotland. Why the Scottish slur? Is there a need for this?
"The clear message" that is being sent at the moment is plan a timely exit from the private rental sector. Crazy!
So Mr Michael Gove wants those 8’300 Private Landlords to House people they don’t want.
This is Private Property not Social Housing do you not know the difference.
Gove is going down the path of forcing private Landlords to house rogue tenants because the big social housing providers aka big Tory donors don't want these type of tenants.
Tenants with children and on benefits can apply but it'll be a waste of their time. I will still take tenants who are more suited to the property and have a sufficiently high income to meet referencing.
And if prospective tenants do not meet the referencing requirements then the insurance companies will refuse to insure landlords. Then, since the government is hell bent on getting rid of landlords, there will suddenly be a new law which will require all landlords to carry appropriate insurance, which they'll never be able to get and so will have no alternative but to sell up.
Gove: "Job done."
I personally don't object to letting to families with children but government laws on overcrowding and bedroom entitlements make it quite unusual for a families legal requirements for bedrooms to match their budget, especially if UC is involved.
It's quite distressing when a hard working, fairly well paid, single dad with 3 children is pleading for the 2 bedroom flat you're advertising because it's the only property in the area anywhere close to his UC aided budget. The new school year starts next week and he doesn't know which school he should be trying to get his kids into as he doesn't know which town he will be living in. I was the first person who explained the bedroom entitlements rules to him and that we would be demonised if we knowingly allowed an overcrowding situation. The bit he found really hard to understand was why all 4 of them sharing a room in a hotel or homeless facility was OK while a 2 bedroom flat would be overcrowded.
I housed a couple with a two year old daughter in a self contained studio flat. They were over the moon because they had come from single room where all three had to sleep in the same bed as there was no room for a bed for the baby, no cooking facilities and disgusting shared toilets. The council mde me evict them (I must admit that although I went through the process I did not try too hard).
Jason Flicker is a funny sausage 😆, he has clearly forgot who owns these properties 💰 and we can simply sell and take the cash 💵, then the tenants can enjoy the great outdoors 💨 ☔️
And Michael Gove has forgotten too. The people concocting all this are being humoured and that is leading to their making appalling misjudgements.
What’s the point in Reference Checking and Bank Statements of potential Tenants if you are forced to House them regardless .
Selection is not discrimination.
Mrs C Byrne's many thanks!
Emily Simmons, I think they're the ones who will be needing all the luck when LL's start to disappear!
Jahan Khan, Nick Van Hoogstraaten, Andrew Townshend, Simon Logan I honestly don't believe that Jason Flicker is a LL, because if he was, he wouldn't be talking so much NONSENSENE, I do believe that he is a tenant though!
Simon Logan we'd all love that, but the government will officially make it law, and I think it will only backfire!
It takes a lot to be a LL, and being a stupid LL isn't an option for most (ROGUE LL's EXCLUDED).
He’s either a tenant or in temporary accommodation and a wannabe tenant 😂.
Probably still living in his Mums box room with his keep at £25 a week inc food and bills
He isn't a Landlord - there is a Jason Flicker that is a bouncer for a boxing club in Harwich living at 311 Main Road Harwich which looks like it is a rental property 🤣🤣
No Gove'ment is going to get anywhere realistically, trying to legislate that those that can only afford a Mini, must be sold a Rolls Royce ! - with manufacturers suffering the shortfall.
End result will be far Less Houses and far higher rents,
I think Gove's been sniffing something again.
😂👍🏻 so true, a bit of what he’s on would brighten my day 🎉
"send a clear message to providers" That private landlords are not wanted in all three nations?
Mr Gove has yet to realise that the PRS was part of the solution not the problem. Sadly I do not think he will ever realise, or perhaps it would be more correct to say he will never admit, just how important the PRS was.
The astute reader will have noticed that I used the past tense, 'the PRS was part of the solution', for I now believe that landlord bullying by government has gone too far for the PRS to recover in my lifetime.
Yes. The political winds are against PRS. They need serious problems for them to all have to admit they need to incentivise people to come back. Not in our lifetime.
Like the Rent Act etc and then in turn the Housing Act 1988 history is and will repeat itself.
Much as I cynically laugh to myself when I read this, it actually doesn’t bother me too much. We’re still a long way from them telling us how to select people. Let all the families/benefits/(pet owners?) apply! Let them waste their time filling in the application! We can just ignore all the ones we don’t want. How are they ever going to get inside our heads and tell us what to think? Can you imagine them trying it: is there to be a legally-enforced flowchart of decision-making when there’s 50 applicants for each property?! Hilarious. Bring it on.
problem with kids is they destroy a lot of furnishings and decoration, parents dont seem to care that much, but when you go to claim from the DPS they may only portion out the claim to how old the item is, so if paintwork, and furnishings are around 6 years old when the tenant moved in but still was in near perfect condition, and could still have another 6 years of life left, the tenant then destroys this in a year and you get zero money from the deposit as the DPS says its past its usefulness date and should be changed every 6 years anyway.
I’m constantly being bombarded by the local council housing department to let rental properties to them
I did it once but never again. Once bitten and all that.
In fact I shall NEVER EVER rent one of my properties again.
I’m a good LL to my tenants and my tenants are good to me.
The Government and Councils are the ones that will be making my tenants homeless due to their constant interference.
I give it no more than 2 years and 80% of PRS LLs will have sold up leaving THOUSANDS of families living in Cheap B&Bs and Cheap Hotels.
All of which will have to be paid for by guess who?
Government and Councils.
And who funds the Government and Councils?
I totally agree with you Peter, and if property prices were to rise in between that time by 15 to 25%, that would be the the LL's "get out of jail free card!"
When the PRS stats show a sudden and steep decline, the government will be campaigning for more LL's to re-enter the BTL market, forgetting that they were the ones who caused the death of the PRS LL's!
Video killed the radio star, by the Buggles.
The government's BTL scheme killed the FTB.
Now Gove 'n' Mental institutions implementing their bills, have killed off the BTL market for good!
I prefer tenants where there are 2 adults working full time. I just think if one of them loses their job the other can still pay the rent on time. I don't mind children. I let out 3 bedroom houses so expect children, but I'm not keen on people who don't work and always chose to rent to workers.
100%.
One stays on, and finds a replacement, the other leaves.
I've had them scenarios a few times, works perfectly.
Under no circumstances, would I rent to someone on UC as it comes with too much grief. They can certainly apply and I’ll consider it…..That’s all I would do, as I’m sure they would not be top of the quality list. It’s unfortunate, but true!
100%.
Dealing with UC, is like taking a tenant with a guarantor.
Very high risk!
So if at this late stage the Renters Reform Bill is amended. Does the approval process have to start all Iover again? Also, the fact that this so called discrimination issue is only just being considered, what on earth have Gove and his team been doing over the last few years?
Election coming so trying to appeal to everyone but appealing to no one…
Rob Crawford,
Alas the process doesn't start all over again.
Hopefully when the Bill gets to the House of Lords, they will give it a through going over (although unelected, they tend to consider things properly, like the Commons don't). Though in the end the Commons can over-rule the Lords, so we'll still get landed with at least some **** stuff.
As I originally wrote to the House of Commons Housing Select Committee: the shortage of rental stock being caused by increased demand and LLDs selling up will increase the opportunities for discrimination by those LLDs who wish to (even where it is illegal). Simply because with more prospective tenants to choose from, there are more possibilities to do so. And easier for any racist, sexist, ageist etc. discrimination easier to hide.
(I didn't track the Housing Select Committee's outcomes (their Report) as had too much else to do at the time. Don't think they did a great job.)
It's all getting a bit silly now, so I'm out. I'll get the forsale signs up, and sell the two properties I have. They wont go to renters, because most renters cant afford £450k houses, that's why most of them are renters.
It's been good mainly, and it will be nice not to have to deal with all the rogue tennants, now the govenment are giving them the upper hand in the courts and in law.
I'll probably setup a new business after moving abroad where they treat people better, and the tax is much lower.
So its goodbye from yet another good and respectable landlord, and good luck to all the renters because you're gonna need a lot of it. I can see the price of cardboard boxes will be going up, and shop fronts will become a premium spot for sleeping. It's a pity the govenment have gone down this road, but that is politics. They do what will save them money and get them voted next time around, it's nothing to do with doing what's right, nor what is sensible. It's a downward spiral to the bottom, and the tennants will be paying the price all the way down.
Portugal looks nice, and has a 10year tax free incentive, but there are other places that are even better for an investor.
Goodbye and thanks for everything. Will the last person to leave the UK, please switch out the light!
Agree 100%. I too am selling up and taking my money out of the U.K. The U.K political system has been infiltrated and utterly corrupted.
As you say Portugal if a far better place to invest.
Another good reason to get the hell out of this game! Bye tenants.....it's been nice knowing you!
Frank. What can I say we are being targeted and wronged.
I am sure first time buyers could buy if they went to the North East where property doesn’t £450k for one house, you can buy 3 houses there go that or a Flat below £100k,
I have that from the horse’s mouth / guy’s doing it & have a 10% return.
London is out of the question with a Semi on the outskirts costing 600 / £700k with return of 3 / 5%, and a continuous target by Government / local Authorities and Taxman plus every other lame duck Organisation having a pot at us who house no one and far more thought of them than landlords.
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